Consoles: Poor Controls and TPS | PC: Precise Controls and FPS

Console games use controllers (duh?) - but does that affect the types of games developed for the system? (also: does the Wii controller affect the type of games on that system?)

PC games use mice (duh?) - see above question

The answer is yes right? Developers use the strengths of the systems.

For example, an FPS on console makes extensive use of aim-assists and other "helpers" to make the game less frustrating (and less challenging), while on PC the mouse allows you to use your skill for aiming changing the way the game plays (run-n-gun vs duck and shoot).

BC2 is a great example of this; on console its very much aim-assisted and the bullet physics are missing, on PC there is bullet drop and no aim-assist.

Question: do the aforementioned facts change what developers are creating for the various systems?

Answer (IMO): yes, on console developers are creating linear TPS games that remove aim skill in leiu of cover mechanics, while on PC developers are focused on adding depth to the already established m/kb precision model (Red Orchestra 2 is a good example of their adding onto the m/kb).

In the end the consoles/Wii/PC are all different animals, because at their core they have different controls philosophies which change what types of games are produced for each system. (multiplats are even changed ala BC2).

So what do you prefer? less control precision and easier games? Or more control precision and potentially frustrating games?

Console gamers don't play many shooters so we don't care

We play JRPGS

Console gamers don't play many shooters so we don't care

We play JRPGS

Zurrur

JRPGs are perfect on console.. I miss FFVII!!!!

im guessing this is hermit trollsauce night tonight...

Why cant you lot get it into your head some people prefer simplicity and feel of a controller, and tbh i personally despise keyboards for bout all genre's cept strategy based ones like RTS,Turn based etc.

Yeah i know im gonna get some paragraph of nonsense based on your preference, and how im totally wrong and a massive casual gamer and/or inferior to the supposed PC gamer aswell :roll:

You couldn't post this in the other thread?

Nah, console controls are perfectly fine. IronBass

Perfectly fine for imprecise and slow controls.

This is a different discussion.

Do controls affect games? I say yes, the controller forces devs to create a specific type of game, same with mouse developed games.

TPS games are superior on console. FPS games are superior on PC.

Preference.

Preference.

jjccjj92

Think so? I disagree, console gamers don't really know what PC precision is like ... so arguments come from not knowing.

Try an FPS on console, and the same game on PC: opinion is negated at that point.

The bullet drop is the same on consoles and on PC :| I never understood why all the PC users said console users struggle with FPS' or consolites can't aim, etc. I never had any problem whatsoever with aiming on PS3. I hear all these complaints about auto-aim and such, but if I can control where I aim just fine, and I can aim just fine, I don't understand why this is a problem.

do you spend your whole time trying to categorize gamers.

i mean what does it matter. i just play games. i don't sit down and think 'hmmm im a PC gamer so that means i like games that are slightly buggy but are a deeper richer experience or hmmm im a console gamer so this mean i should only play games with poor controls and although i get a more polished experience my games are shallow, but as i'm a console gamer i literaly have no other option'

i just play games.

The bullet drop is the same on consoles and on PC :| I never understood why all the PC users said console users struggle with FPS' or consolites can't aim, etc. I never had any problem whatsoever with aiming on PS3. I hear all these complaints about auto-aim and such, but if I can control where I aim just fine, and I can aim just fine, I don't understand why this is a problem.

XVision84

Slowly move sights over someones body, you will notice a magnetic "pull" to their body (worse games just change the trajectory).

You don't notice it because you are use to it - disable auto-aim (you can't) and you'll know what I mean.

Console gamers don't play many shooters so we don't care

We play JRPGS

Zurrur

[QUOTE="jjccjj92"]

Preference.

haberman13

Think so? I disagree, console gamers don't really know what PC precision is like ... so arguments come from not knowing.

Try an FPS on console, and the same game on PC: opinion is negated at that point.

Nope, I have a friend who's a PC gamer. He hates keyboard and mouse, but he loves controllers so he uses the 360 controller with his PC. I've used keyboard and mouse, and I've gamed on PC, I don't like using the keyboard and mouse. I much prefer a controller and the vibration from the controller, and I can just grasp it with my two hands, I just feel more satisfaction from it. This may just be me, but I feel no "immersiveness" or I feel dead when I play an FPS on the PC. On the other hand with the controller, vibration, etc. I feel immersed and I never really feel the need to switch to keyboard/mouse.

[QUOTE="haberman13"]

[QUOTE="jjccjj92"]

Preference.

XVision84

Think so? I disagree, console gamers don't really know what PC precision is like ... so arguments come from not knowing.

Try an FPS on console, and the same game on PC: opinion is negated at that point.

Nope, I have a friend who's a PC gamer. He hates keyboard and mouse, but he loves controllers so he uses the 360 controller with his PC. I've used keyboard and mouse, and I've gamed on PC, I don't like using the keyboard and mouse. I much prefer a controller and the vibration from the controller, and I can just grasp it with my two hands, I just feel more satisfaction from it. This may just be me, but I feel no "immersiveness" or I feel dead when I play an FPS on the PC. On the other hand with the controller, vibration, etc. I feel immersed and I never really feel the need to switch to keyboard/mouse.

Fair enough. Does the reduction in skill bother you or no?

Nah, console controls are perfectly fine. IronBass

"The proposal, part of Microsoft's LIVE push, popped up "many many months ago", and would have allowed people playing games available on both PC and 360 - like Gears of War - to take each other on. Kind of like 2007 shooter Shadowrun, only people would actually play it.

Problems quickly arose in testing, however, when Microsoft found that even the best console gamers simply couldn't compete with the accuracy a mouse and keyboard afforded a PC player. "The console players got destroyed every time", Sood says. "So much so that it would be embarrassing to the XBOX team in general had Microsoft launched this initiative."

[QUOTE="XVision84"]

The bullet drop is the same on consoles and on PC :| I never understood why all the PC users said console users struggle with FPS' or consolites can't aim, etc. I never had any problem whatsoever with aiming on PS3. I hear all these complaints about auto-aim and such, but if I can control where I aim just fine, and I can aim just fine, I don't understand why this is a problem.

haberman13

Slowly move sights over someones body, you will notice a magnetic "pull" to their body (worse games just change the trajectory).

You don't notice it because you are use to it - disable auto-aim (you can't) and you'll know what I mean.

Oh no, I've noticed it believe me. Crysis 2 has less auto-aim than the crazy high auto aim in Call of Duty games. Like I said though, if I can aim well, and it's not taking away from the experience, and I can aim wherever I wish, then why is this a problem?

The level design changes too sometimes

[QUOTE="jjccjj92"]

Preference.

haberman13

Think so? I disagree, console gamers don't really know what PC precision is like ... so arguments come from not knowing.

Try an FPS on console, and the same game on PC: opinion is negated at that point.

[QUOTE="haberman13"]

[QUOTE="XVision84"]

The bullet drop is the same on consoles and on PC :| I never understood why all the PC users said console users struggle with FPS' or consolites can't aim, etc. I never had any problem whatsoever with aiming on PS3. I hear all these complaints about auto-aim and such, but if I can control where I aim just fine, and I can aim just fine, I don't understand why this is a problem.

XVision84

Slowly move sights over someones body, you will notice a magnetic "pull" to their body (worse games just change the trajectory).

You don't notice it because you are use to it - disable auto-aim (you can't) and you'll know what I mean.

Oh no, I've noticed it believe me. Crysis 2 has less auto-aim than the crazy high auto aim in Call of Duty games. Like I said though, if I can aim well, and it's not taking away from the experience, and I can aim wherever I wish, then why is this a problem?

Perfectly reasonable response. No problem.

There are certainly benefits to console gaming as well; 55" screens and couches are nothing to scoff at.

Console gamers don't play many shooters so we don't care

We play JRPGS

Zurrur

"The proposal, part of Microsoft's LIVE push, popped up "many many months ago", and would have allowed people playing games available on both PC and 360 - like Gears of War - to take each other on. Kind of like 2007 shooter Shadowrun, only people would actually play it.

Problems quickly arose in testing, however, when Microsoft found that even the best console gamers simply couldn't compete with the accuracy a mouse and keyboard afforded a PC player. "The console players got destroyed every time", Sood says. "So much so that it would be embarrassing to the XBOX team in general had Microsoft launched this initiative."

Jankarcop

Mouse and KB being better (or those PC gamers being better at Gears) doesn't change that controllers work perfectly fine.

[QUOTE="XVision84"]

[QUOTE="haberman13"]

Slowly move sights over someones body, you will notice a magnetic "pull" to their body (worse games just change the trajectory).

You don't notice it because you are use to it - disable auto-aim (you can't) and you'll know what I mean.

haberman13

Oh no, I've noticed it believe me. Crysis 2 has less auto-aim than the crazy high auto aim in Call of Duty games. Like I said though, if I can aim well, and it's not taking away from the experience, and I can aim wherever I wish, then why is this a problem?

Perfectly reasonable response. No problem.

There are certainly benefits to console gaming as well; 55" screens and couches are nothing to scoff at.

Man consoles are still on 55" LCDs and couches?

100" projector screen and la-e-boy recliener is where its at with PC :P

[QUOTE="haberman13"]

[QUOTE="jjccjj92"]

Preference.

jjccjj92

Think so? I disagree, console gamers don't really know what PC precision is like ... so arguments come from not knowing.

Try an FPS on console, and the same game on PC: opinion is negated at that point.

I'm an objective thinker, in a discussion about control precision arguing for a less precise mechanic is negated. Subjectively you prefer the inferior method, objectively your opinion in this matter doesn't qualify as you are arguing for less/inferior (pertaining to control precision and its affects on games).

[QUOTE="haberman13"]

[QUOTE="jjccjj92"]

Preference.

jjccjj92

Think so? I disagree, console gamers don't really know what PC precision is like ... so arguments come from not knowing.

Try an FPS on console, and the same game on PC: opinion is negated at that point.

Mouse and KB being better (or those PC gamers being better at Gears) doesn't change that controllers work perfectly fine.

IronBass

Controllers are pretty bad for twitch based shooters like Quake where you need the absolutely better control KB/M has.

[QUOTE="XVision84"]

[QUOTE="haberman13"]

Think so? I disagree, console gamers don't really know what PC precision is like ... so arguments come from not knowing.

Try an FPS on console, and the same game on PC: opinion is negated at that point.

haberman13

Nope, I have a friend who's a PC gamer. He hates keyboard and mouse, but he loves controllers so he uses the 360 controller with his PC. I've used keyboard and mouse, and I've gamed on PC, I don't like using the keyboard and mouse. I much prefer a controller and the vibration from the controller, and I can just grasp it with my two hands, I just feel more satisfaction from it. This may just be me, but I feel no "immersiveness" or I feel dead when I play an FPS on the PC. On the other hand with the controller, vibration, etc. I feel immersed and I never really feel the need to switch to keyboard/mouse.

Fair enough. Does the reduction in skill bother you or no?

Not too much, I agree there's more skill in keyboard and mouse, but it doesn't bother me too much and there's still some skill needed when using a controller (well it really depends from game to game).

Same here. I love PC gaming, but I still prefer a controller even then. Mice are cool and all, but I'd rather be able to lean back and kick my feet up when I'm blowing holes in people. MrSelf-Destruct

...you can do that with a KB/M.

[QUOTE="Jankarcop"]

"The proposal, part of Microsoft's LIVE push, popped up "many many months ago", and would have allowed people playing games available on both PC and 360 - like Gears of War - to take each other on. Kind of like 2007 shooter Shadowrun, only people would actually play it.

Problems quickly arose in testing, however, when Microsoft found that even the best console gamers simply couldn't compete with the accuracy a mouse and keyboard afforded a PC player. "The console players got destroyed every time", Sood says. "So much so that it would be embarrassing to the XBOX team in general had Microsoft launched this initiative."

IronBass

Mouse and KB being better (or those PC gamers being better at Gears) doesn't change that controllers work perfectly fine.

Controllers are pretty bad for twitch based shooters like Quake where you need the absolutely better control KB/M has.ChubbyGuy40

And KB/M are terrible for precise platforming like Super Meat Boy. So what? Everything in life has ups and downs; imput methods are no different.

[QUOTE="MrSelf-Destruct"]Same here. I love PC gaming, but I still prefer a controller even then. Mice are cool and all, but I'd rather be able to lean back and kick my feet up when I'm blowing holes in people. ChubbyGuy40

...you can do that with a KB/M.

No they don't work fine. If they worked perfectly fine console gamers would have stood a chance against PC gamers.ScarfaceNY

Considering that almost no game offers cross-platform competitive MP, measuring how they work based on that just doesn't make any sense.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]Controllers are pretty bad for twitch based shooters like Quake where you need the absolutely better control KB/M has.IronBass

And KB/M are terrible for precise platforming like Super Meat Boy. So what? Everything in life has ups and downs; imput methods are no different.

Terrible? You probably wern't used to using it then.

And why talk about another genre when this is about shooters?

BC2 has bullet drop on consoles buddy.

Also, there are console (at least I know of PS3) games that don't have any aim assist in the MP portion, and they control great. The fact is that aiming isn't more difficult with an analog stick if the acceleration and sensitivity are programmed well for that analog stick.

If you just take a PC game's mouse controls and map it to an analog stick, it will control like crap with a controller (see Turok for a demonstration).

Likewise, if you took a well made console game's controls and just ported them whole sale to a PC, the mouse wouldn't work well since the acceleration will be all funky.

I don't like aiming with a mouse, since I find the larger movement is less precise than the smaller movement I use aiming with a controller. Also, I find the way FPS games play on a PC to feel very silly and unnatural due to mouse control side effects, such as speed and stiffness. It seems like console FPS games have more ability to differentiate themselves in how they feel and play because the acceleration, speed, and movement can all be tailored to the game.

Also, I don't see how analog sticks make TPS easier to make or play, since the aiming function is still largely the same as an FPS game.

[QUOTE="ChubbyGuy40"]Controllers are pretty bad for twitch based shooters like Quake where you need the absolutely better control KB/M has.IronBass

And KB/M are terrible for precise platforming like Super Meat Boy. So what? Everything in life has ups and downs; imput methods are no different.

Console gamers really getting under your skiin today, huh? ;) But..I like using my mouse to work After Effects, Cinema 4D, Photoshop, etc. Not game.

[QUOTE="ScarfaceNY"]No they don't work fine. If they worked perfectly fine console gamers would have stood a chance against PC gamers.IronBass

Considering thatalmost no game offers cross platform competitive MP, measuring how they work based on that just doesn't make any sense.

Terrible? You probably wern't used to using it then.

ChubbyGuy40

That's the opinion of one of the most dedicated PC gamers on this forum (not me, I read it from a user review).

And why talk about another genre when this is about shooters?ChubbyGuy40

My last sentence explained it. To show that they have up and downs and as such certain games work better/worse than others.

[QUOTE="jjccjj92"]

Preference.

haberman13

Think so? I disagree, console gamers don't really know what PC precision is like ... so arguments come from not knowing.

Try an FPS on console, and the same game on PC: opinion is negated at that point.

This thread is about shooters. Stick to the topic title.. Nothing better than seeing someone try to disregard the PC and then go off-topic because they know if they stay on-topic, they have no chance at winning.ScarfaceNY

As I already explained, it was meant to illustrate a point about both having advantage and disadvantages, not to disregard anything.

BC2 has bullet drop on consoles buddy.

Also, there are console (at least I know of PS3) games that don't have any aim assist in the MP portion, and they control great. The fact is that aiming isn't more difficult with an analog stick if the acceleration and sensitivity are programmed well for that analog stick.

If you just take a PC game's mouse controls and map it to an analog stick, it will control like crap with a controller (see Turok for a demonstration).

Likewise, if you took a well made console game's controls and just ported them whole sale to a PC, the mouse wouldn't work well since the acceleration will be all funky.

I don't like aiming with a mouse, since I find the larger movement is less precise than the smaller movement I use aiming with a controller. Also, I find the way FPS games play on a PC to feel very silly and unnatural due to mouse control side effects, such as speed and stiffness. It seems like console FPS games have more ability to differentiate themselves in how they feel and play because the acceleration, speed, and movement can all be tailored to the game

Pug-Nasty

Yet you still don't have the precision, control, or speed you do with a mouse for aiming. Not to mention you have much more customization options for mouse.

Also BC2 has auto-aim and larger hit boxes on consoles.

[QUOTE="haberman13"]

[QUOTE="jjccjj92"]

Preference.

ianuilliam

Think so? I disagree, console gamers don't really know what PC precision is like ... so arguments come from not knowing.

Try an FPS on console, and the same game on PC: opinion is negated at that point.

No, I'm saying run-n-gun is console (as duck and shoot requires precision). Sorry for the confusion, I impuned "cover mechanics" as well so you got it from that.

duck and shoot == CSS/BC2 PC

run and gun == Halo/Gears/etc

In a console game movement doesn't affect accuracy (in most shooters at least) like Gears, where as on PC you have to duck and shoot with short bursts or the recoil kills you.

Comparing apples to oranges. Really completely depends on the genre and preference as to which is more user friendly.

Console games use controllers (duh?) - but does that affect the types of games developed for the system? (also: does the Wii controller affect the type of games on that system?)

PC games use mice (duh?) - see above question

The answer is yes right? Developers use the strengths of the systems.

For example, an FPS on console makes extensive use of aim-assists and other "helpers" to make the game less frustrating (and less challenging), while on PC the mouse allows you to use your skill for aiming changing the way the game plays (run-n-gun vs duck and shoot).

BC2 is a great example of this; on console its very much aim-assisted and the bullet physics are missing, on PC there is bullet drop and no aim-assist.

Question: do the aforementioned facts change what developers are creating for the various systems?

Answer (IMO): yes, on console developers are creating linear TPS games that remove aim skill in leiu of cover mechanics, while on PC developers are focused on adding depth to the already established m/kb precision model (Red Orchestra 2 is a good example of their adding onto the m/kb).

In the end the consoles/Wii/PC are all different animals, because at their core they have different controls philosophies which change what types of games are produced for each system. (multiplats are even changed ala BC2).

So what do you prefer? less control precision and easier games? Or more control precision and potentially frustrating games?

haberman13

Competitively I use a mouse and keyboard. Single player I use a controller. I played through Bulletstorm and Metro 2033 on PC with a controller and had a blast. Using a controller vs a mouse and keyboard setup is just far more leisurely. I honestly wish the PC version of Mass Effect supported them. To answer your question I like both. Depends on my mood, and my gaming objective at the time.

[QUOTE="ianuilliam"]

[QUOTE="haberman13"]

Think so? I disagree, console gamers don't really know what PC precision is like ... so arguments come from not knowing.

Try an FPS on console, and the same game on PC: opinion is negated at that point.

haberman13

No, I'm saying run-n-gun is console (as duck and shoot requires precision). Sorry for the confusion, I impuned "cover mechanics" as well so you got it from that.

duck and shoot == CSS/BC2 PC

run and gun == Halo/Gears/etc

In a console game movement doesn't affect accuracy (in most shooters at least) like Gears, where as on PC you have to duck and shoot with short bursts or the recoil kills you.

Even you should know that Gears is a cover based shooter. Run-and-gun in that game and you will die quickly.

[QUOTE="IronBass"]Nah, console controls are perfectly fine. ChubbyGuy40

Perfectly fine for imprecise and slow controls.